Financial Firsts

Tiffany: I wanted to ask, as we’ve been talking about social life and interacting with folks. To kind of finish out this conversation, I also wanted to make a space to let you talk about how you thought about balancing out the different kinds of things you were doing beyond going to class while you were a college student. So you’ve talked about your role in theater productions as, for a lack of a better way of saying it, an extracurricular activity. Although, was that way more for you right like a part of finding community and your identity? But so you were a part of theater productions, you were telling me that you had, you worked for Upward Bound a little bit.

Darlene: Oh, yeah.

Tiffany: And I also know that you were the photo laminator for the student IDs.

Darlene: Oh, yeah. [Darlene laughs]

Tiffany: And you also worked as a waitress and a bartender at Moxie’s, right, at some point?

Darlene: Yep.

Tiffany: So let me make a space for you to talk about what you remember as being some of the significant ways that you wanted to or had to use your time outside of the classroom. What those experiences meant to you and how you thought about the meaning of them and fitting them in and balancing your time.

Darlene: Oh yeah. Okay, so I thank you for bring that, and giving me space for that again because one of the really huge diversity wakeup calls for me was tutoring math in Upward Bound for a Hmong gentleman who was significantly older than me. Again, I’m nineteen, this Hmong gentleman maybe forty-something, but I learned so much from him and here I was supposed to be tutoring math for him. So I remember having a conversation with him and they did not have written or spoken, or they only had spoken oral language, but they didn’t have a written language. And so when it came to teaching math and using a pencil, and I found out that he was a professor in his culture, I really kind of felt unworthy in some way of being here with him at this space, in this space of time and getting paid for this job. So he was really an interesting part, I think, early on of my seeking out diversity. So by the time I hit theater I was already twenty-two, but the nineteen year old in me needed jobs cause I needed, and so someone, I must of had a math class. Oh, I was a math, I was going to be a math teacher at one point, so I was a math major [Darlene laughs]. And the idea that I could get paid to teach basic math to somebody seemed fine. Because in addition to that I had worked at Moxie’s waiting tables, and that restaurant still exists. And then I had an on-campus job in photo services which was in Wing Technology [Center]. And literally we would take actual photos of people and then I would, you know, punch them out and put them into a laminated card and send it through a laminator and then two to three days later, you as a student would come and pick it up and I had a little file folder with all the IDs that I would give to students when they came to pick up their ID. So that was my on-campus job with Don [Suter] and Paul [Currier] in photo services. And all my friends got to work there too, so I was sort of like the one who would bring in the people and, you know, we’d have front desk coverage for that job. So that, you know, yeah I had to work to supplement what it was that my folks would help me out with. Yeah, they would pay as long as I got C’s or better. And those jobs or those experiences were really about, yeah, making a wage. I mean, maybe that’s another reason why I didn’t participate in some of the activities on campus because that time I needed to go make a wage. I didn’t, or at least that’s how I had framed it, so nowadays there are some TRIO programs, and certainly across the nation, that know it’s important to pay a student who comes from a low income, who is first generation, who, you know, it’s hard not for that work-life to take a priority. But my dad always told a story about his cousin who went off to law school while my dad was making money at a bakery. And my dad was making the money and the cousin who went off to law school was very poor right? But he learned from that story that education is the path to quality of life in the future and he instilled that in us as a way of saying you create your future. Education is one path and I’ll help you do that if you want. I remember calling home in my junior year and saying, “I can’t do it. I can’t do it. I’m going to go be an airline hostess.” And he said, you know, “Yeah, no problem. Come home and you can start paying your own car insurance. And you can start paying your own health insurance. And you can start,” you know, so then it was like, oh, that’s way more expensive. So [Darlene laughs] I stayed in school. He had a way of reverse psychology and that way kept me in school. Because yeah, okay right, it is about my future. It is about, yes I’m poor, yes I’m living in a house that is, you know, probably looks the same today as it did thirty years ago, the one on 9th and Vine. But that quality of living was only temporary because ultimately my education would give me this opportunity to make my way in life, which it sort of did. Then upon graduation I thought, oh my gosh, I have this degree where do I go now? And I took off. I went traveling for a month in my car around the United States with the idea that I would settle in Seattle, but by the time I got there a month later all my clothes were dirty and I had been living out and camping and we couldn’t really look for jobs because we didn’t necessarily have a good landing pad to stick around. So my friend and I came back to Wisconsin and I moved back home with my mom and dad for two years and I planned to move to Oregon in that two years. But that was my ticket, was the degree was my ticket to my future. And then I could go anywhere, do anything.

Tiffany: The other question I wanted to ask goes in a completely different direction. I, you were mentioning sort of the life of a poor college student when you were talking about needing to work and priorities for working. Could you talk a little bit about the living conditions of your off, when you were living off-campus? What were the places you were living in like? What concerns did you have about them? What was it like to live off-campus as a college student who didn’t necessarily have all the money that they needed to live?

Darlene: Yeah. I remember living for a long time on English muffins, toasted English muffins and peanut butter. And that was my go-to because that was all I could really afford or maybe I’d get a big jar of peanut butter when I would go home and then I could go out and get some English muffins. So that sort of, and I’m allergic to peanut butter now [Darlene laughs] because I ate so much of it, I think. So that, yeah, food was an issue. Ramen wasn’t a thing. I didn’t, you know, I know people talk about ramen now, but I didn’t know what that was I guess. I remember, yeah, the egg sandwich probably got me through a lot when I could get my hands on some eggs and stuff. I didn’t, my mom and dad would give me money still when I lived off-campus. So food kind of was never an issue. Like I never really went hungry. I will say that is part of a privilege space of growing up where we always had food no matter what. I will say the living conditions were pretty bad. I remember moving into 9th and Vine. Which, like I said, the outside looks exactly the same. The stairs that were super rickety in the back are no longer there, so you can’t exit out of the upstairs as far as I can tell from the back alleyway. But yeah, somebody broke their leg on those steps. And I’m sure they lasted for another ten years before the landlord probably took them out with, you know, so he didn’t have to spend the money fixing them. Oh he was a terrible landlord, he hit on every single one of us girls and he was smarmy, and he had that power that he abused and it was that situation, yeah. And, [Darlene laughs] but we needed a place to live. And it was 9th and Vine, so, and there was a laundromat right there on 9th or 8th and Vine whatever that right there, 8th and Vine. And so that was just one year though cause that landlord was smarmy. And then we had a really nice landlord in the apartment building that was a little newer, but it was super basic, right? Like everything is super basic. I’m not sure I had posters on the walls ever. If I did it was probably a calendar for something that I needed to remember. Yeah, I’m not sure we had, you know, we never had a dishwasher. I don’t think I ever had a dishwasher. I’d never had a garbage disposal. I don’t think I ever had laundry in my unit. In the apartment complex sure, but we always paid for laundry at a laundromat. Yeah, I’m not sure I ever had a bed frame. Oh, maybe I did have a bed frame on a twin bed, but otherwise I had mattresses on the floor. Usually I had a dresser of sorts. I mean, but when I moved out to Oregon I had an air mattress and I remember my air mattress for a year. And my clothes were laid out on the floor around the edge of my bedroom because I didn’t have a dresser or anything like that. We had an outdoor picnic table as our kitchen table. Or a patio table it was for a kitchen table that we found by a dumpster. You know, so we would collect what we could along the way. Yeah, so that was just kind of slowly building what would be functional in a space for the time being because it was temporary. Yeah.

Darlene: So I did the math on what the tuition was at the time and I told myself that no matter what I would have to show up to classes and if I learned at least one thing, it didn’t matter if I liked the professor, didn’t like the professor, if they knew who I was or not, I had to show up because this was real money to me. And I figured it out that a two-day-a-week class, like a Tuesday-Thursday class, was $17.50 a class. And so that $17.50 was real money to me, and if I learned one thing, that was going to be worth it. And so, no matter what, I always dragged myself to class. Attendance was the one thing that I was going to make sure I did.

Michelle: I worked at my father’s gas station in the [Wisconsin] Dells, but because I was a commuter and only worked- or only went to school like usually two days a week, I always worked on the weekends and one or two days, but I was able to study at work. It wasn’t busy in the winter, so I could go a half hour without even a customer coming in [Scratching noise] and I got a lot of quality study time. [Chuckles] [Scratching noise]

Kevin: Alright, now when you were working at this job, [Scratching noise] do you remember how much you were getting paid?

Michelle: Well I had worked there for years. I think I had started at seven dollars and seven thirty five an hour. But when I was in school I was up to ten, ten dollars an hour which was actually okay at that time. Thirty years ago. [Chuckles]

Kevin: Yeah that was quite a bit for the late ‘80s early ‘90s if I do say so.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: That's above what our minimum wage is now.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: Now do you happen to remember roughly how many hours a week you were working?

Michelle: Probably thirty-ish. Now in the summer definitely more, but while I was attending school, yeah probably thirty. And I would not have been able to have done that had I not been able to study. I used my time wisely, and, you know it was my dad’s gas station so he was happy to have me studying.

Kevin: Alright. So now you were almost working forty hours a week and you were still taking a full school schedule, do you remember how you balanced your school and work and life schedule?

Michelle: Well I didn’t have much of a life. It was literally school, driving, working. There were- there was nothing- there was nothing really else because there was no time. I mean that’s what I did and it was, I don't know, I don't remember it being- I remember being very thankful that I could do my homework at work. I got paid to do my homework, and that was a really good thing.

Kevin: Alright now do you have any tips for students today trying to balance their work, and college, and life schedules?

Michelle: I definitely wouldn't work more than maybe fifteen sixteen hours a week. I think that’s what they require. But if you're taking eighteen credits and working, that’s different then if you’re taking twelve. But I would make sure it’s a job that… I don’t know. That you know, that you’re really comfortable with, not a high-stress job. And definitely put your school first. I mean, I know some kids absolutely have to have the job, but I would say put your education first and, you know, find a job you make lots of money for a short amount of time like serving or bartending or… something like that. Put the education first. That’s what you're there for.

Katy: Sometimes it can be, it could be tough. Just cause, like, for me, Eta Sigma Gamma meetings were 7 to 8 on Mondays. Like every other Monday. But then, every Monday, as an RA, you have staff meetings at 8 O’clock, so like sometimes those days would get a little long like, just, or the evenings would get a little long if I had to run from the U all the way back to Angell, in like 5 minutes to get to staff meeting. But I mean it’s not, it's not like a huge, it wasn't a huge thing. Intramurals wasn't too bad, either. Just ’cause I, I think I did those on the weekend, like whatever day I had, I think it was like a Sunday or something so it wasn't too bad. It at least didn't interfere with anything I would have going, going on during the week. So that was nice. But no, you just–you just have to manage your time effectively, and sometimes as an RA that can get hard. But I mean, if you plan it out while, like you know, planning your, your days that you're on duty and that kind of stuff. it's not too bad, and you know you live where you work, too. So it's not like you have to account for like travel time, or things like that, so, as long as you, as long as you manage your time, it’s not too bad.

Megan: Why would it be beneficial for a student to get a part time job while being in school?

Katy: I would say, I mean, it's really nice to have spending money, like, even if it's just a little bit. You know, especially as you like, meet all these new people Freshman year. It can, it kind of, I don't know– they kind of, like, go side by side. But you, I feel like it's kind of common to go places with these people ’cause you, you like, oh, you meet someone with a car, and like oh, “that’s my friend with a car.” Like if you don't have a car, then it's like perfect. We can go all these places together, cool, so, like, I just kind of, I feel like freshman year I would often find myself like getting take out or something with some of my friends, because like that's what we were all doing that. So it was like, perfect, like I got– I work at the desk. So like I got the money, perfect. You know, gas money, obviously, money for tuition– if you are paying for your tuition. That's important, too. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's always, it's just good to– so like again, kind of helps you with time management. Just like figuring out a schedule, a routine. Kind of getting out of the community a little bit too, depending on where you work. Like, might meet some cool people, or like someone from across campus or something, or like, I don't know. Might– might meet someone important. I don't know. So I think, yeah, just kind of helping with your finances. With that– it never hurts. I don't think, unless you're working too much, then it might hurt. But having a little extra money in the bank doesn't hurt, so.

Gavin: You were the first person in your family to graduate from college. Why did you decide to go to college in the first place?

Butch: Well I always liked school and I always had a plan to go into some profession. And I had thought about going to be a lawyer and that was what I had thought about at first, and actually my first choice when I was in high school I was kind of thinking about going to Madison, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and that’s when I was kind of thinking about law. Well, I think probably, maybe the summer before I graduated from high school I kind of thought, you know, maybe I should stay closer to home. And so then that’s why I decided to go to La Crosse. Because I could stay at home and save the tuition, or save the dormitory fees and only have to pay the tuition. Well then, of course, when I did graduate I was Salutatorian so my first year the tuition was paid by a state grant and so I started at UWL. And it wasn’t until probably my sophomore year that I decided then to go into education.

Gavin: Do you remember about how much the tuition cost?

Butch: Yes, I remember my first, probably first and second semester both. It was $116 for 16 to 18 credits. And, of course, that was covered by the state of Wisconsin, so my first year I just had my expenses of books and going back and forth. And you could rent books back at that time, you didn’t have to buy. You could go to the Commons Area and rent textbooks. And I did buy maybe some of the English books. My freshman year, of course, we had to take a general like Biology and certain…

Gavin: Yep.

Butch: …[gen] ed sciences and so I didn’t purchase those books. I just rented them. So by living at home I was able to save quite a bit of money.

Gavin: And, I guess we can switch gears here and discuss your commuting from home.

Butch: Right.

Gavin: And, see you told me that you obviously commuted from your family’s home in Onalaska for all four years of college. What ultimately made you decide to want to commute rather than living in the dorms?

Butch: It was basically economics. It was much more saving, of course, to do that, and my parents didn’t charge any room and board at the time. They were very supportive of my education. And it was just a good money savings, that was primarily the goal.

Gavin: Ok.

Butch: And then because of the fact that I was not really overly a social person, I probably was not too interested in going to a dorm.

Gavin: Yeah.

Butch: So that would, probably the social aspect would be another reason why I just wanted to stay at home.

Gavin: And then you had mentioned that you brought your ’62 Volkswagen Beetle with you to college. Did you have any difficulty finding places to park?

Butch: No. I didn’t get the Volkswagen until probably about the second semester of my first year because that’s when I started working part time at the Metallics factory on Brice Prairie. And I didn’t have any parking problems, I had one little space that I always, I go there early, of course, every morning. And so there was a space and there was no time limit back in, I think maybe now some of the side street parking is limited to maybe like a couple hours or something like that.

Gavin: Yeah.

Butch: But this area, and there might have been some of that, but where I parked, and I was probably only a couple blocks from the [Florence Wing] Library, it was more on the, probably north part of the campus, a little bit off from Badger Street. And I always had this one spot, and because I got there early I could always park there, so that was pretty much it. It never changed for pretty much the four years.

Gavin: And then you’d mentioned that you worked at your Metallics factory job outside of attending college. What all did that job entail?

Butch: I worked in the shipping department. It was probably my mother that got me the job. She was head of the inspection department. And so she was instrumental in getting me the job. And it was a good job because there was a full-time person that worked in the shipping department, but they, of course, would go home when the factory closed. They allowed me to work even after the factory had closed. I would finish up packing whatever had to be shipped out that day. I used their panel truck to deliver packages to the post office, to the airport, to the train station, and so I would work sometimes until like seven or eight o’clock at night. And it was, it worked out very well. And they were very accommodating, they let me pretty much come whenever I could when, like most of the time my classes were done by two-thirty, three o’clock, so I was at work probably just a little bit before everybody left the factory. So I could get a list of what I had to do that day. The person that worked in the shipping department would leave me a list of what had to be done.

Gavin: Ok.

Butch: And I worked, when I started it was 75¢ an hour. I think by the time I was a senior I was making $1.25 an hour.

Gavin: And then was working the only way that you paid for college or did you receive any scholarships or grants as well?

Butch: Well the first…

Gavin: In addition to your…

Butch: Just for that first year, otherwise no. Everything else I was able to pay myself.